on being without children

[gurdonark]

So many times in life people have strong reasons for everything they do. They act under the most amazing compulsions and desires. They make goals, and set priorities, and feel themselves lifted to the mountains or dashed upon the rocks if those goals are/are not met. I've rarely found myself in quite that position.

The problem of children and childlessness is a curious thing. My mother once said to me that she viewed children as a necessity and not an option in her life. Certainly if she'd been unable to have them, she would have adjusted, but she could not imagine choosing not to have them.

But the reality is that my wife and I chose not to have children. I read testimonials in the childfree community, one of the few communities I have ever "unfriended", which attest that the rude behavior of children in grocery stores is apparently a major disincentive about actually having any children. I have also read somewhat more heart-breaking stories from folks who feel their own dysfunctional childhood would pose for them impediments to being a good parent.

Our choice not to have children did not have any grand roots in child-aversion, nor any fears about our own dysfunctional childhoods. We both like children, and enjoy their company. For reasons of our own, we chose not to have children. Those reasons had more to do with situational things about the stresses in our lives and the extra stress a child would have involved than with any grandiose theory or universally applicable rule.

I always feel uncomfortable with dogmatic positions on the children/childlessness thing. I know far too many people who would make excellent parents, and yet can't have children. I know far too many people who are unfortunate parents, who perhaps should not have had children at all. Most people I know who chose to have children, though, cope with them fine. Most people I know who did not have children have meaningful lives.

I could write at length about the selfish pleasure of having one's own free time more frequently than if one had children, but frankly, I believe that idle hands, if not necessarily the devil's workshop, involve both disadvantages and advantages. I rarely hear any but the most over-stressed parent complain "gee, I had too much quality time with my kids". But it is true that I feel a certain lack of stress that I imagine would be intensified if a good bit of our time were devoted to child-rearing.

Once upon a time, I worked a lot more than I work now. In its time, this would have been a detriment for my wife and I in raising children. Now, I work very hard, but my hours are not nearly as long as in the "old days". I stop sometimes and wonder if I had made the choices to have a less stressful work life earlier, whether we might have chosen to have children. I suspect we would have made the same choices.

Everything is a movement now. I see people gathering under the "childfree" banner, protesting the tax exemptions and extra paid time off people with families get for their dependents. I'm not at all a believer in such movements, as I think there's a societal basis for easing things up for those with children. In the main, when somebody asks if we have children, people are reasonably cool when I say "no". Once in a while, somebody assures me we still have time (apparently, they are experts on psychic biological clock telling) or ask "why not?". Being without children, you see, is something that requires an explanation. I know I'm supposed to put some sentence in here like "I seethe inside when this happens", but in life, I find that I rarely seethe when I should. I'm for my own part, in such matters, kind of like Curious George, really, asking the wrong questions, and greeting the wrong answers with a shrug and "may I have a banana?".

I do hear the stories of other peoples' family lives, "the kids are in college", "ninth grade geometry is a real bear; we're tutoring every night", and "did you hear what x did last week?", and take a wistful look sometimes, at an ivy-colored playground I'm forever denied. When I call home, my parents are as apt to regale me with a story of a favored grandchild as they are to tell me of their own lives.

But I must admit that I don't "miss" children. I love children, always have, always will--I loved being a child, I love being a child. I have nieces and nephews of whom I'm very fond. I suppose that we are still young enough to adopt should we choose, but I do not believe we will so choose (I'll save for another time my mildly dogmatic feeling that adoption remains an under-utilized device in our times, while hyper-scientific medical procedures for fertility are so commonplace). I suspect we will be one of those old couples who never had kids.

Although we're both in our early forties, I do wonder about an old age when one has no descendants to watch out for one. I will have to take extra steps, if I am granted the Grace to live so long, to protect against eventualities. I wonder, too, if I kept a certain childlike aspect because I never had the responsibility of being a parent. I certainly feel more 25 than 43.

But ultimately, I don't have any really strong "reasons" why our lives turned out the way they did, or strong prognostications about what that will mean. I just know that I never feel "unfulfilled" for want of children, and at the same time, I am sometimes curious at what might have been.

Comments

[dabroots.livejournal.com]

That's great. I'm remembering an exchange between us about the "childfree" militants, and how we talked about having children vs. not having children. I don't think I mentioned one of my older brothers, who's now 51, and his wife 44. As far as I know, they chose,many years ago, not to have kids. They've had good relationships with children of friends and, to some extent, with our sister's sons. They're out in the Midwest, though, so can't see my son very often. I'm pleased that I didn't become a father when I was still in my twenties or even my early thirties. Becoming a dad when I was forty was pretty good, I think, and my ex was 32 at the time. In some ways, I think becoming a parent at 40 brought out a few more child-like things about myself that had gotten submerged. Anyway . . . I need to get moving and in the direction of work, right now. Good to read your thoughts.

[gurdonark.livejournal.com]

THanks for commenting. I don't think we'll have children, but I imagine I would have been a very different parent at 40 than at 24. I think that one thing that has changed a lot since we were 21 is the average marriage age, which moved up from low 20s to 28 or so. You "bucked the trend",though, by marrying much later. I'd think that being a parent at 40something would be fun, because you're so much more in touch with being a kid in some ways :).

My two cents on the subject of children

[sominfun.livejournal.com]

I'm sort of controversial on the other end of the spectrum. Joe and I view children as one of God's blessings, and we have doubts about even using birth control while he's in law school. (Although, we probably will - I don't know that I could handle rearing our first born mostly by myself.) We hope to be blessed with a large family of natural and adopted children, which is something I wouldn't have necessarily thought I would want a few years ago. For a long time I struggled with the wordly view that children are a big burden, financially and otherwise. But the more I try to conform my life to the Bible the more my eyes are opened. The Bible teaches that children are in more ways than one a blessing and that we have a duty to raise them unto the Lord, so to speak. To say the least, it's an interesting topic, and I was curious about your decision. Thanks for sharing.

Re: My two cents on the subject of children

[asphalteden.livejournal.com]

I don't know how I feel about the word "conform." Perhaps I am more comfortable with the idea that someone would use the Bible as an example of how one might live his or her own life.

I'm not trying to be controversial or anything, but I do wonder if Christians might find it more rewarding to regard living up to the Bible's example as more of an ideal than a realistic goal. Just my non-Christian opinion, of course....

Nevertheless, it is interesting to hear this side of things.

Re: My two cents on the subject of children

[gurdonark.livejournal.com]

I think it's important to follow your own sense of what you are called to do in determining whether to have kids and how many to have. I don't have any magic formulae for which callings are right and which are not, and all the Pauline dichotomy about the value of family at all are things you'll know as well as I will.

I think that the important thing is to be guilt-free about any compassionate choice you make with integrity. That's what we are all "called" to do. I can imagine for one saintly person having children is a "call", but for another, childlessness or celibacy is a "call".

I have a friend whose church members told her she was "betraying God's plan" by being childless by choice.
I found the lack of understanding of Biblical concepts inherent in that statement appalling, but it takes all sorts of beliefs to make a world.

I think that what's important is frequently not "did I have kids" or "did I not have kids", but instead "did I do what ws the compassionate thing, consistent with my values and integrity, as I lived". The individual choices are much less important than the spirit of the choice, in my humble, worthless but wordy opinion.

[asphalteden.livejournal.com]

I suppose I simply trust my instincts. I've never had a desire to have children, and I'm marrying someone who is strictly opposed to it.

I'm not sure if I'll regret or change my decision in future, but for now it is the right thing to do, and the only decision I am comfortable with.

Certainly I have nothing against children, or people who have children.

Incidentally, I love your Curious George reference; and I think we are both similar in that respect....

[gurdonark.livejournal.com]

Curious George could be my child, or my parent, anytime.
I always think that 20something is youngish to make a final decision on children, but it may be that it is just right.

[uscwriter.livejournal.com]

Thanks for a great entry about children and not about children... I think it is a personal choice, and people should be left alone to decide that for themselves. Sometimes choices just play out in the everyday eventuality of our lives. I remember not having a child, and I wonder what did I do with myself then? And now I can't imagine not having her here. I want more, many more, adopted older children and our born children. And it is wonderful that there are people out there without children to share in the loving of ours.

[gurdonark.livejournal.com]

I hope you get your wishes on kids. It's great that you've enjoyed yours so much!

[arcanum-dogma.livejournal.com]

rude behavior of children in grocery stores is apparently a major disincentive...
 
for them, it should be. they're probably the type that would leave lil' junior to raise himself.
 
i had a whole diatribe about parents who think in the same manner, but i don't feel like developing a 'tude this early in the day.

[gurdonark.livejournal.com]

It's true that those who are so easily offended by kids probably should trust their instincts and live without them. :).

[sortofkindof.livejournal.com]

I guess one thing I've experienced already (assuming I may not have children) is the kind of selfish attitude some people have towards the topic. In this specific instance, I was asking a co-worker about his kids (purely being conversational) and another co-worker piped up (granted, he's a weirdo to begin with) asking me (paraphrasing here) "Why are you always talking about other peoples' kids -- you don't have kids -- you should mind your own business about people's kids." Ironically a few mintues later he started a conversation with someone else about her family, but that's ok because he's a family man, apparently.

Anyway, that really got on my nerves, because even if I live to be 100 and never have kids, I (like you said) love kids and childhood and thereby have every reason to care about kids or interact with kids, even if I don't have any of my own.

And I think, sometimes, it's misunderstood that adults without children somehow therefore have no reason to be around children. And that's rather bothersome. But I'm glad to hear of no major clashes for you in this choice.

[gurdonark.livejournal.com]

Isn't it curious? Some folks can't imagine why kids are so fascinating for the childless. Of course, the counterpoint to that point is that I always notice that the childless frequently claim expertise in raising other peoples' kids.

I think in this atmosphere of odd behavior in which we all live, caution is understandable, but I am with you--anyone should understand that kids can be so interesting.

[nutmeggie.livejournal.com]

I burned for children and yet, maybe you read in my journal about that time when I was about to have one and I was second guessing. I guess it's natural, it's happened not just that once but every time I've been pregnant, but I've always wondered what gave me the right.

I admire people who make the decision not to have children if that's what they want, or who decline to have them when they are ambiguous on the topic.

I hate when people make judgement calls on people who are childless. Sometimes, they are even wrong, assuming someone is selfish when they've really been trying all these years. They say the nastiest things. I hope you and your wife haven't been too much victims of that.

Thanks for letting us take a peek at your thoughts.

[gurdonark.livejournal.com]

When I was single, I assumed that I would one day have children. Then, when I was an older single, I assumed that I would never marry and never have children. I think that the choice to have children is so individual, that I agree with you--it's so easy to judge people for what they choose, and so much more important to be compassionate with each choice.

I'm not saying that all choices are "right", but I am saying that a broad range of choices work :).

[soakedinsin.livejournal.com]

Once again I so very much enjoy the eloquence of which you approach topics. I am reaching a point in my life where my boyfriend and I are trying to find whether children will have a place in our lives and I find your insight awesome. I often feel pressure to have kids just out of some societal obligation to fall into that "junior is at soccer practice" deal. I must admit that I sometimes fall on the side of not wanting kids simply due to the screaming kids in my neighborhood, sometimes not wanting to add to the worldly population stress...but the majority of the time just because I really value MY time and do revel in the guilty pleasure of the freedom of not having children. I wonder sometimes if my older age will be less fulfilling without grandchildren and family visiting me for holidays and etc, but your post made me feel a lot better about possibly deciding to not have children some day. I am still very young and still very on the fence...there is no rush, but it was really really nice to hear the positive other side of things for once.

[gurdonark.livejournal.com]

You state some aspects of the dilemma very well--thanks for commenting. The choice is so individual--and so fundamental.
The only rule I try to apply to that choice is the rule of making your own best decision, not the decision imposed on you by others' expectations or just raw, blind fear.

[holyoutlaw.livejournal.com]

What a deep and thoughtful entry. Thank you for posting it. I also liked the responses it got.

[gurdonark.livejournal.com]

I love it when a post generates responses, as here, superior to the post. Thanks for commenting!

[woody77.livejournal.com]

kamileon and I have talked about kids (good thing to do before you buy a house together and are talking about getting married). We both agree that we want kids, but we're going to wait a bit.

We have really good friends that don't want kids, and it just makes sense for them. Not because they have some aversion to children, or couldn't be good parents, but just that the life they want doesn't include children. That may change in the future, but for them, it's not for them right now.

Aleatha and I would like to get the house sorted out, and get some "toys" of our own, before we start devoting the time/energy that we feel we would need, to having kids.

I think it's the kind of decision that a couple should make, and not be judged on. I don't think people _SHOULD_ or _SHOULDN'T_ have kids.

Although I must admit that after about 4, I start to think that perhaps the family's a bit too big, but that's my own personal feeling, and one reason why while I want children, I only want 2.

***

BTW, I'm 20something, and think I'm too young yet for kids. :) Although it is getting closer.

[gurdonark.livejournal.com]

I completely agree with you, each couple should make its own decision (some individuals make that decision outside a "couple"), and within very broad boundaries, there is no wrong decision. Of course, I feel differently about people in their 20s making that decision than about people in their teens, and I think folks who don't like kids might not ought have them. But it's a very individual choice, very personal, and not one that in general should subject one to judgment.

[nacowafer.livejournal.com]

This issue, to have or have not, is one that has been weighing on me heavily. I have little doubt that having children would be an amazing, rewarding experience. I just worry about my own capabilities, as a mother--to be responsible for another life, to care and to nurture. I nearly had a very real breakdown when my cat was sick a few years ago, so I can only imagine what a wreck I would be with any of the myriad mini-crises that present with human children.

But I feel the clock ticking fast, and I know all will never be in order. D. very much wants children, but knows I am ambivalent right now. He thinks it may be the very thing that could help me see the true beauty of life. And maybe he's right. But it seems such a risk...

The circumstances surrounding my own coming to be have clouded my vision somewhat.

Oh, and I'm terrified of being pregnant. And of birth.

[gurdonark.livejournal.com]

I think you'd be a dynamite parent, although I don't think you "need" children to be a dynamite person. I think that fear of pregnancy and childbirth is normal--it would be more frightening if you lacked it. I don't know what is right for you, but something tells me that you are one of those in life who will have a child or two. Although at your age, the clock ticks a bit, the ticking is not that fast yet. It's just a bit more trouble a bit older, I know, but these things work out as they work out.

But if you choose not to have children, that's all right, too.
I don't have any one answer that would be right for all, and I certainly would not presume to say what is right for you.

[serendipoz.livejournal.com]

I have also read somewhat more heart-breaking stories from folks who feel their own dysfunctional childhood would pose for them impediments to being a good parent.

I have to admit that I found it so difficult being a child with my parents that I feared I would cause similar problems to children if I had them. So I turned away. I find, now, that I don't think I would cause those problems, but it has taken many many years to relax into a different reality.

Thanks for writing about this, though. You give me other ideas/lives to ponder.

[gurdonark.livejournal.com]

You raise an important point, which is, to me, that although in some ways we are the same people all along, in other ways we age very differently as time goes on, and our ability to shoulder different burdens certainly alters.

[coollibrarian.livejournal.com]

excellent post as always. just wanted to let you know that I got the "chess poems"!

[gurdonark.livejournal.com]

I'm so glad the book got there. I staggered my mailings, a few at a time, and still have a very few to mail. It's nice seeing the books trickle in, though impossible to predict how swiftly they will arrive!

[sun-set-bravely.livejournal.com]

Thank you so much for this post. I love the responses that you've received. I think there's no need to claim that your post is inferior to the discussion it has evoked; on the contrary, I often think of your posts and comments as a call and answer of the best kind.

[gurdonark.livejournal.com]

You know, the call and response of the journal is one of the things that appeals to me the most. It's like some great spiritual song, in some cyberspace creek, where all are saved.

[t-pot.livejournal.com]

very interesting reflections, both in your posts, Robert, and in the responses you got.

i just got here merely to tell you i share your standpoint and i understand it very closely. as for me, i don't think i'll have children as well. i'm not even into a relationship with a woman! so it's very hard for me to imagine myself in a family context. i'm entering a drastical phase of my life, very self-centered, yet not selfish in the strictest and most negative sense. it's simply a matter of survival: my future is very foggy at the moment, and i don't think i'll soon find enough economical stability to guarantee a decent life to other people apart from myself :/ this "loner" landscape is something i can like on one side (the taste of a certain kind of freedom i never had) but is also something which can bring sterility in the long run if one's not able to deal with it on a daily basis.

sorry, i had a lot of things in mind and ended up blethering on about myself...

best,
Rick

[gurdonark.livejournal.com]

Rick, it is my uninformed perception that being self-centered in an external goals sense is a very good thing for you, as it beats being self-centered in an internal brooding sense. As for children, who knows? You're so very young, though in some ways not young at all.

[miscelenaclosed.livejournal.com]

You've written about this before, and I'm always intrigued by reactions you receive. As you know, I have a child, absolutely adore him and believe my life is richer for his place in it... but am fairly certain that I don't want any more children.

I'm 30, divorced and dating, and it's a difficult thing for people to understand, apparently, that I don't particularly want to "start over again" with someone new... the typical response is "Oh, you've got lots of time!" as if it were a matter of a biological clock... which it's not.

The thing that stuck out in your monologue this time is this:
I wonder, too, if I kept a certain childlike aspect because I never had the responsibility of being a parent. I certainly feel more 25 than 43.

Oh, absolutely. I had a child at 18, and I can tell you that I've felt 30-something since then. I'm 30 now, and finally feel like I fit in my skin, my life, my circumstances. I'm hoping I 'stick' at this age: I rather like it!

I'm delighted that I had my child young: I had the energy to keep up with him when he was tiny (more energy than I have now!) and I suspect/hope my 40's will be not terribly unlike your own... active and probably married and unfettered with the stress of raising a child, as he'll be grown and on his own.

I 'lost' my twenties... I attended exactly one fraternity party, I didn't hang out in bars and drink a lot. I married my high school sweetheart... I didn't date much until after he left me, and even then it wasn't the meat-market dating that my friend's experienced.

This is not to say that I think I actually missed out on -anything-: that sort of wildness was never something that interested me anyway. I don't feel in any way impaired or deprived for not having had the typical 20's experience.

I am doing the career-building bit now, as a single parent, while my son is school-aged. It's interesting, and makes for a busy and full life. Its a constant challenge to juggle and balance, but I wouldn't have it any other way.

I'm behind, professionally, the college-educated and certified 26 year old that my office just hired... but as someone said a long time ago: You can have it all, just not all at the same time. I'm ok with what I traded. I'm happy with the swap: I got to be a stay-at-home mom *before* I started my career, but she'll have to take a break from her professional life if she decides to stay home as a full-time mom for five years like I did.

Also, my friends who are marrying now and having babies are just now experiencing the loss of independance that having small children imposes, and are finding themselves more home-bound than they expected. Their spontaneity is gone, and they miss it, as much as they love their kids. They too, are juggling, but will be doing so for muuuuuch longer than I will. I have a 12 year head start, after all. ;)

I will regain that independance in a few years when my son heads off to college and then out on his own, and I suspect I will have more time, money, energy and experience to appreciate that freedom than I would have in my twenties. I am looking forward to the "selfish pleasure of having one's own free time" that you mentioned, right about the same time my friends are starting to worry about homework and bullies and such. :)

You're right that it's an individual decision in all respects... my life is very atypical, but it works for me. Yours is different than mine, but atypical also... and it works for you. That's a very very good thing. We're both very blessed. :)

[gurdonark.livejournal.com]

The nice thing about having a child so young is that you are so young when he is grown. I could argue that I "lost" a lot of my twenties, too, but to something much less fascinating than child-rearing :). You will have a lot of independence, at a time when those who are now 30 and starting a family will be without theirs.

[nutmeggie.livejournal.com]

I also thought I would mention something...

One of DH's friends has no children and he often complains bitterly about paying "school taxes" and the like when he sees it as no direct benefit to him. He says "I'm paying for everyone's kids, even though I chose to have any."

One day I said to him "Who is going to look after you when you are old?"

"Huh?" he asked.

"Well, my children will help take care of me when I'm old. You don't have any children to look after you so I guess it will be someone else' children who look after you when you need it."

"Well, yeah," he admitted.

"Don't you want those people to be well-educated, competent and mentally balanced adults?"

So, after that, he never has complained again about paying for other people's children. At least, not to me.

It really does take a village. Not just for a child, but for a person.

[gurdonark.livejournal.com]

I agree--it does "take a village". Oh, and thank you for suggesting this topic!

Some rambling response

[kelquestor.livejournal.com]

Remember this? One of my first tastes of gurdonark... Whilst I notice you revisit many themes in your writing, Robert, I find it interesting that this one has come up again so soon for you. I wonder what it is that is bringing it to the surface?

I agree with miscelena that having a child does make one assume some more 'adult' aspects than one might otherwise. It also takes away some of the privileges a life of lesser or different responsibility might allow (fortunately it replaces them with other things one feels honoured to witness).

Before I got pregnant, I considered myself a 'late bloomer', a 'young soul' and, less charitably, a slow learner. I'm not saying I'm not those things any more, but I think being made privy to a view of the world through a window of perspective broadened two ways - seeing things as a new parent, and seeing things anew through the eyes of my child - has 'matured' me to a degree (although I'm still not what I'd describe as worldly). It's also made my approach less permissive in some ways. There's things I am not prepared to tolerate now that my child could be affected by them, which I'd have brushed off or given little regard to in the past.

Of course, there's so many variables in a life, who's to say I might not have reached this point of "development" if I'd remained childless into my thirties and beyond, as was my conscious plan?

To nacowafer, I will say this: that having a child was not something I thought myself capable of coping with, and the pain of childbirth a thing that I thought beyond my bearing gracefully. I still fear that I will go regrettably wrong, and I have exactly the same agonies over the suggestion of a second child. Fear of the unknown? Lack of belief in myself? Reluctance to risk the pleasures of the status quo? All of the above.

At about the same time that I, by a kind of default, committed to having a child, an old friend with whom I have shared a lot scheduled an abortion. There'd been some kind of cooling of our friendship before that, but I don't think it has helped that we took opposing forks in the 'unplanned pregnancy' road. Recently we made contact again after some time of silence, and she writes that she feels judged by me. I think it is only the silence that makes her feel thus, because I have never condemned her actions. But the silence sprang from a different source.

All I know is, we make our own decisions (or they are made for us?) and then those decisions make us.

Re: Some rambling response

[gurdonark.livejournal.com]

The actual reason I revisited this topic again so soon is that somebody suggested it in one of my polls. I am glad you found that old one, as I thought I had written much of this before, but did not remember when. As you know, I don't mind in my journal that I revisit themes, as they don't lose relevance to me just because I have written on them once.

I think that the time that I reflect a bit on a choice, though, is the time when the choice is just made. I suppose this particular choice is just a few years behind us.

Leaving aside the legalities that have consumed so much of our attention since the 1970s in this country, the issue of termination of pregnancy as a personal choice is such a complex one. Of course, I think it should be a legal matter of choice, but the personal issue is so difficult. It's too bad if this cooled your friendship, although, quite frankly, it sounds as though your friend has judged herself, and mistaken your silence as part of it.

Was it a difficult decision to keep your child?
Somehow I would guess that for you, it would be an inevitable decision to keep a child. I have a relative whose unplanned pregnancy brought for her responsibilities that she has in the main handled really well--parenthood for some does bring out unsuspected strengths.

But I try to be as judgment-free as I can on all these difficult decisions--it's just so hard to be grown up, and few, if any, of us, are very good at it.

Sorry to burden my loyal reader with a rerun :).